Saúde

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prl
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Re: Saúde

Post by prl » Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:39 pm

Betterman wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:35 pm
Gastam 1 comprimido de paracetamol que custa em média 0,12€ e cobram 3,5€ ....e assim roubaram 38 milhões em 2015 e 2016 .
E quando o " estado " descobre esta trafulhice .....o que diz a Procissão Cristas ? A culpa é do governo . Haja decência !
O que foi isso?
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Re: Saúde

Post by Betterman » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:39 pm

prl wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:39 pm
Betterman wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:35 pm
Gastam 1 comprimido de paracetamol que custa em média 0,12€ e cobram 3,5€ ....e assim roubaram 38 milhões em 2015 e 2016 .
E quando o " estado " descobre esta trafulhice .....o que diz a Procissão Cristas ? A culpa é do governo . Haja decência !
O que foi isso?
A Adse e agora a retaliação dos principais grupos saúde privada . Agora querem acabar com a convenção com a adse e a cristãs diz que a culpa é do governo .....

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Re: Saúde

Post by prl » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:50 am

Betterman wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:39 pm
prl wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:39 pm
Betterman wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:35 pm
Gastam 1 comprimido de paracetamol que custa em média 0,12€ e cobram 3,5€ ....e assim roubaram 38 milhões em 2015 e 2016 .
E quando o " estado " descobre esta trafulhice .....o que diz a Procissão Cristas ? A culpa é do governo . Haja decência !
O que foi isso?
A Adse e agora a retaliação dos principais grupos saúde privada . Agora querem acabar com a convenção com a adse e a cristãs diz que a culpa é do governo .....
lol claro que é :lol:
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Re: Saúde

Post by Last Soldier » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:17 am

prl wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:02 am
Cheira a trampa para que lado? :P
Em 12 horas tiveste a resposta. Bastou ver o caso ADSE.

Enfermeiros Premium vão votar na Cristas.
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Image 18.08.2009
Image 10.07.2010
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Image 11.07.2014 Image 18.07.2014 (EV)
Image 12.06.2018 Image 01.07.2018 Image 05.07.2018 Image 14.07.2018
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Re: Saúde

Post by prl » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:12 am

Last Soldier wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:17 am
prl wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:02 am
Cheira a trampa para que lado? :P
Em 12 horas tiveste a resposta. Bastou ver o caso ADSE.

Enfermeiros Premium vão votar na Cristas.
Que votem e na próxima estão a chorar porque perderam os empregos e agora estão a trabalhar através de empresas de sub-contratação e a receber metade do que recebiam :P
00: Image ... 06: Image Image Image Image ... 07: Image Image Image ... 09: Image Image Image ... 10: Image ... 12: Image[SG] Image Image Image Image Image[EV] ... 14: Image Image Image[EV] ... 16: Image[CC] Image[CC] Image[TOTD] ... 18: Image Image Image Image Image ... 19: Image[EV]

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Re: Saúde

Post by Last Soldier » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:47 pm

prl wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:12 am
Last Soldier wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:17 am
prl wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:02 am
Cheira a trampa para que lado? :P
Em 12 horas tiveste a resposta. Bastou ver o caso ADSE.

Enfermeiros Premium vão votar na Cristas.
Que votem e na próxima estão a chorar porque perderam os empregos e agora estão a trabalhar através de empresas de sub-contratação e a receber metade do que recebiam :P
E mais um episódio:
https://www.publico.pt/2019/02/20/socie ... or-1862730

Enfermeiros trocam almoço por solidariedade a sindicalista em greve de fome
Image

Bem precisa de fazer uma dieta. :lol:
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Image 08.06.2007
Image 18.08.2009
Image 10.07.2010
Image 26.06.2012 Image 04.07.2012 Image 05.07.2012 Image 03.08.2012 (EV)
Image 11.07.2014 Image 18.07.2014 (EV)
Image 12.06.2018 Image 01.07.2018 Image 05.07.2018 Image 14.07.2018
:nocode:


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Re: Saúde

Post by prl » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:06 pm

Confesso que me faz muita confusão o extremo a que esta questão dos enfermeiros chegou. Quais são concretamente as reinvidicações deles? Há algo concreto ou é o habitual exigir de melhores condições? A greve de fome é uma posição de força de tal forma extrema para situações tão graves (caso Luaty Beirão, por exemplo) que me parece absurdo alguém ter seguido esse caminho aqui. E pelos vistos outra se vai juntar.

E faz-me confusão ver isto tudo acontecer agora, depois de termos passado pelo governo anterior que chegou ao ponto de sugerir às pessoas que emigrassem, onde ordenados foram cortados e até a precariedade aumentou entre enfermeiros (sub-contratação através de empresas intermediárias em vez de contratação directa).
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Re: Saúde

Post by Betterman » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:35 am

Afinal sempre era Bluff…. ( todos já sabíamos )

https://jornaleconomico.sapo.pt/noticia ... dse-421632

Mas não se esqueçam de pagar os 38 milhões de euros !

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Re: Saúde

Post by solf » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:51 am

já começaram a baixar as calcinhas....
Devem ter visto uma baixa tão grande da marcações a partir de abril que toca de recuar!

Agora os outros vão se seguir claro! Só espero que o Ministério da Saúde tenha mantido a posição!

38M€ e com juros!
EV - "FDX VOCES SAO OS MAIORES!"
e somos mm......


Image24.11.96 Image25.11.96 Image23.05.00 Image25.05.00 Image26.05.00
Image04.09.06 Image05.09.06 Image16.09.06 Image17.09.06 Image30.09.06 Image08.06.07 Image12.06.07 Image13.06.07 Image18.06.07
Image11.08.09 Image13.08.09 Image15.08.09 Image17.08.09 Image18.08.09 Image21.09.09 Image22.09.09 Image25.09.09 Image30.10.09 Image31.10.09
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EV solo
Image03.08.12Image18.07.14Image17.06.17Image20.06.19

ToTD
Image07.11.14


:stickman:

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Re: Saúde

Post by solf » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:01 pm

EV - "FDX VOCES SAO OS MAIORES!"
e somos mm......


Image24.11.96 Image25.11.96 Image23.05.00 Image25.05.00 Image26.05.00
Image04.09.06 Image05.09.06 Image16.09.06 Image17.09.06 Image30.09.06 Image08.06.07 Image12.06.07 Image13.06.07 Image18.06.07
Image11.08.09 Image13.08.09 Image15.08.09 Image17.08.09 Image18.08.09 Image21.09.09 Image22.09.09 Image25.09.09 Image30.10.09 Image31.10.09
Image22.06.10 Image23.06.10 Image25.06.10 Image30.06.10 Image01.07.10 Image10.07.10
Image03.09.11 Image04.09.11 Image03.11.11 Image04.11.11 Image06.11.11 Image09.11.11 Image11.11.11 Image13.11.11
Image04.07.12 Image05.07.12 Image07.07.12Image20.06.14 Image22.06.14 Image25.06.14Image26.06.14Image05.07.18Image10.07.18Image14.07.18

EV solo
Image03.08.12Image18.07.14Image17.06.17Image20.06.19

ToTD
Image07.11.14


:stickman:

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Re: Saúde

Post by Last Soldier » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:24 am

Last Soldier wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:47 pm
prl wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:12 am
Last Soldier wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:17 am
prl wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:02 am
Cheira a trampa para que lado? :P
Em 12 horas tiveste a resposta. Bastou ver o caso ADSE.

Enfermeiros Premium vão votar na Cristas.
Que votem e na próxima estão a chorar porque perderam os empregos e agora estão a trabalhar através de empresas de sub-contratação e a receber metade do que recebiam :P
E mais um episódio:
https://www.publico.pt/2019/02/20/socie ... or-1862730

Enfermeiros trocam almoço por solidariedade a sindicalista em greve de fome
Image

Bem precisa de fazer uma dieta. :lol:
Só pra fechar o tema: Durou 1 dia a greve!! UM DIA! :lol: :lol:
Image 04.09.2006 Image 05.09.2006
Image 08.06.2007
Image 18.08.2009
Image 10.07.2010
Image 26.06.2012 Image 04.07.2012 Image 05.07.2012 Image 03.08.2012 (EV)
Image 11.07.2014 Image 18.07.2014 (EV)
Image 12.06.2018 Image 01.07.2018 Image 05.07.2018 Image 14.07.2018
:nocode:


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Re: Saúde

Post by Last Soldier » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:30 am

Betterman wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:35 am
Afinal sempre era Bluff…. ( todos já sabíamos )

https://jornaleconomico.sapo.pt/noticia ... dse-421632

Mas não se esqueçam de pagar os 38 milhões de euros !
O que esses "grupos" querem é...

Retirado do Reddit:
When you have insurance in America there are four areas where you pay, four ceilings.

The first is the monthly premium. Be prepared for a single adult in good health to pay $250 to $500 a month on the open market. Just for the privilege of carrying health insurance. That's before you use it. You pay this each month. Like paying rent on the house you live in. Even if you don't get sick for the whole month you're still paying this every month

Those with employer sponsored plans pay much less for their monthly premiums as a single adult. Like $40 - 50 a month. That's why employer plans are still wildly more popular. Because the employer pays the rest of the monthly premium as part of your 'benefits package.'

I have a dependent (my son) and pay $350 for us both on my employer plan.

The second is the annual deductible. High-deductible plans are becoming more common. Because they keep the monthly premium in the nearly affordable range. For instance, my deductible is set at $5,000. Now an employer-sponsored plan usually has a lower deductible. But my plan is not unusual.

Meeting my annual deductible means that every office visit, every procedure, every time I get the flu, everything I do medically, I pay full freight. Until I reach the ceiling of $5,000.

This means I'm paying $350 a month premium in order simply to have health insurance for myself + my son. And every time I go to the doctor I'm paying $150 simply for a doctor visit. Even if nothing comes out it. But the $150 counts toward the deductible. You can quickly imagine how long it takes to reach such a high deductible.

Currently I have a baby. Babies get sick constantly. I took him to the doctor on Friday. I paid $150 to be told he wasn't sick enough to do anything. (But if I didn't take him, and he got sicker over the weekend, we could have ended up at the emergency room, which would have been frighteningly expensive.)

So I'm paying monthly, and I pay every time I or my kid goes to the doctor. But I "have insurance."

That's just the first two ceilings. We haven't talked about the 3rd or the 4th.

Once you meet your deductible, there's the third ceiling. It's called maximum out of pocket expense.

Say I've paid all of my deductible. Maybe I had a broken leg, and went to the hospital, and the bill came in at $7,000 (remarkably low). I have to come up with $5,000 out of pocket. Now the insurance should pick up the remaining $2,000 right?

Nope. That's when the max out of pocket ceiling kicks in. I now pay 20% of the remaining costs until I hit that maximum out-of-pocket ceiling.

I paid $5,000 for my broken leg. I now pay 20% of the remaining $2,000. That's another $400. I've now paid $5,400, I've missed work, and I'm going to be missing a little more before I can go back.

If I'm very lucky, I'm salary and not hourly. Which means I may still continue to draw some salary during the week or two I'm out. If I'm paid hourly, I'm getting paid jack shit while I'm out. Nothing. If my hourly job depends on me being able bodied, like waiting tables, obviously I'm out of work entirely with my broken leg. My employer does NOT have to give me a sit-down job. They're under absolutely no obligation to do so.

And I still have not hit my max out of pocket ceiling. The max out of pocket ceiling is set at an additional $2,500 on top of the $5,000 deductible (these numbers depend on the health plan, mine is not unusual).

So I'm paying 20% of everything else that happens for the rest of the year. All of the follow up for my broken leg, additional X-rays to make sure it's healing appropriately, having the cast removed, follow-ups to make sure I'm doing well, physical therapy. Everything could easily cost an additional $10,000. 20% of that only comes to $2,000.

I know the math gets confusing but I hope you're still following along. With the $400 paid at the time of breaking my leg (on the $2,000 that exceeded my $5,000 deductible), plus the $2,000 now paid as 20% for all of the follow up, I'm really close to my max out of pocket ceiling of $2,500 (on top of the $5,000 deductible), but I still have $100 to go.

Of course, add in missed work for all of those doctors appointments, x-ray visits, and physical therapy appointments. Again, let's hope I'm salary and not hourly. (Either way I could be fired at any time for any reason.)

The final expense is called co-pay. Co-pay simply means what I pay for every office visit. Depending on your plan, your co-pay could be low ($20 just to go to the doctor), or could be high ($60 just to go to the doctor). Once I've hit my deductible, I still have co-pay. Co-pay only goes away once I've hit my max out of pocket.

It will also vary by specialty. Your GP costs less than the bone and joint specialist.

You better not have any emotional difficulties in your life. Going to a mental health practitioner will be a higher co-pay than your general practitioner.

Co-pay is also what you pay for medication, if you're lucky. I'm on a medication that would be $250 a month all by itself. With insurance, my copay is $40 a month. So when I pick it up at the pharmacy, I pay $40.

This pharmacy plan is better than my last employer. On their plan, I paid full freight for medications, until I hit my deductible. To run that back by you, that means $350 premium just to have insurance for myself and my child. And $250 month for one medication.

Needless to say I was not on my medication when I had that health plan. I couldn't afford to be.

All of these numbers are subject to change when you have children (your monthly premium doubles or triples, as mine did, and your annual deductible and max out of pocket increase, as mine did). It changes when you change jobs (your new employer will have a different plan, and you will have a 30 to 60 to 90 day window without insurance. For which there is special coverage called COBRA, but it's really expensive). It changes when you lose your job (obviously you lose insurance, ideally you can buy it on what's called the open market, but it's horrifically expensive).

Does that answer your question?

Welcome to health insurance in America.

What health insurance in America is good for it, and the only thing it's good for, are massive medical events.

If your kid gets leukemia. If you have a heart attack and need a triple bypass. If you develop a hernia. If you have appendicitis. If you're pregnant, you have a complicated delivery, and your baby ends up in NICU (that happened to me and my kid).

For any of those events, you instantly blow through all of your deductible, all of your max out of pocket, and you reach a level where you don't even have any more co-pays. Sounds great but that is still a lot of money.

Yes you're instantly out $7,500 to $10,000. But you're not paying $150k to $850k to several million, depending on the condition. You do still have to pay the monthly premium. And hope you still have a job.

Now when the calendar clicks over to a new year, You pay all of this all over again. Your deductible resets. Your max out of pocket resets. And you're still paying the monthly premium. So for that on-going condition (leukemia, diabetes, endometriosis), you pay that massive dollar amount again when the calendar clicks over.

Make sense?

Don't get the flu in the United States. Don't break your leg. Don't get pneumonia.

Hope nothing happens that costs just enough that you have to pay for everything, but not so much that the insurance ever has to pay for anything.

Which honestly, is most health events. The insurance companies calculate for that. They want you to pay the vast majority for your broken leg. They want you to pay almost everything for pneumonia. They're only going to pony up any helpful dollar amount if you get leukemia or need a triple bypass.

Hope that the health event happens in January or March, and not in November or December. Because the calendar will click over in the middle of your medical expenses, and you'll pay twice. But hopefully you won't be bankrupted. (Considering most Americans live paycheck to paycheck, even Americans that seem well-off, that's a thin hope.)

Although if you can't go back to work you might lose your job, and therefore eventually lose your health insurance anyway.

Welcome to the land of the free and the home of the brave.

TL;DR - Look at price of ongoing monthly premium, price of deductible, price of max out of pocket, and price of co-pays. Add together to get total yearly cost should something happen. Pay all over again each year. Hope you're salary not hourly, and that you don't lose your job.

EDIT: Oh wow, thank you for the shiny shinies!

As others mentioned, my screed doesn't touch on in-network or out-of-network doctors and hospitals. Take everything I've said about coverage and throw it out the window. It's only applicable to in-network doctors and hospitals.

In-network just means doctors and institutions with whom your insurer has negotiated and agreed rates. Sounds innocent but non-network providers are the wild west. Your pediatrician might be in-network on one plan, you change jobs, and now they're out of network. You're finding a new pediatrician, having files transferred, and dealing with a new practice. If you catch it in the first place.

In-network also apply while traveling. I will pay out of the nose for a car wreck in Omaha, when I couldn't decide what hospital I'd go to, and I couldn't refuse the ambulance (don't get an American started on what they charge you for an ambulance).

Even for planned surgeries, I'll pay out the nose for a new surgeon brought in to assist my surgeon, who I meet minutes before I go under, if I later find out the new assisting surgeon was not in-network.

There's no benefit for the doctors in doing this. They like to get paid too, and this makes it more unlikely to get paid. So it's not a conspiracy or something. It's just American fucking health insurance.
Saúde privada? jamais!!
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Image 08.06.2007
Image 18.08.2009
Image 10.07.2010
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Image 12.06.2018 Image 01.07.2018 Image 05.07.2018 Image 14.07.2018
:nocode:


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Re: Saúde

Post by Betterman » Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:55 pm

À primeira oportunidade, tentaram reverter essa enorme conquista que foi a criação do SNS, substituindo-a pela inefável lógica do mercado.

A Lei de Bases da Saúde de 1990 precisa de ser revogada e não é apenas por uma questão de atualização ou modernização das bases que dela constam. A Lei de Bases de 1990 precisa de ser revogada porque ela faz mal ao Serviço Nacional de Saúde. Ela é um fato feito à medida para que os negócios privados se instalassem e propagassem na área da saúde. E já se sabe que quando a saúde é tratada como um negócio, os utentes deixam de a ter garantida como um direito.

Leia-se a Base XXXVII dessa lei:

1 - O Estado apoia o desenvolvimento do sector privado de prestação de cuidados de saúde, em função das vantagens sociais decorrentes das iniciativas em causa e em concorrência com o sector público.

2 - O apoio pode traduzir-se, nomeadamente, na facilitação da mobilidade do pessoal do Serviço Nacional de saúde que deseje trabalhar no sector privado, na criação de incentivos à criação de unidades privadas e na reserva de quotas de leitos de internamento em cada região de saúde.

Esta base – feita ao gosto do PSD/CDS e das suas clientelas – diz taxativamente que o SNS deve abdicar dos seus trabalhadores, dos seus recursos orçamentais e até das suas camas de internamento para que estes possam alimentar o setor privado. Ou seja, o SNS deve destruir deliberadamente a sua capacidade de resposta para que os privados tenham um mercado para atuar e depois o SNS se veja a contratualizar com os privados.

Estas orientações perversas tiveram, como seria de esperar, consequências negativas para o SNS e para os utentes. Analisemos, com maior detalhe, a questão das camas de internamento:

Segundo o INE, entre 2007 e 2017 as camas públicas foram reduzidas de 27.086 para 24.650 (-3.036), enquanto as camas privadas cresceram, no mesmo período, de 9.134 para 10.903 (quase 2000). Se olharmos para esta evolução numa série mais longa verificaremos a mesma tendência e uma proporção quase direta entre a destruição de camas públicas e a criação de camas privadas.

Questionamo-nos, então: será que a destruição de camas no público aconteceu porque essas camas já não eram necessárias? Foi isto um reflexo da tão falada ambulatorização de cuidados? Ou aconteceu, de forma deliberada, para que os hospitais públicos tivessem depois de contratualizar serviços de internamento com respostas privadas, transferindo assim respostas e orçamento para os grupos económicos que operam na saúde?

Ora, para ter uma resposta a esta pergunta, o Bloco de Esquerda questionou todos os hospitais do país sobre a evolução do seu número de camas, a contratualização que fazem com privados e as despesas associadas a essas contratualizações.

Olhando para as respostas de cerca de metade dos centros hospitalares do SNS (as unidades da ARS Norte e da ARS Algarve ainda não responderam) é já possível ter uma visão da realidade: estes hospitais, entre 2008 e 2018, perderam 1768 camas, ao mesmo tempo que (em 2018) se viram obrigados a contratualizar 314 camas com entidades privadas, uma opção que custou ao SNS mais de 4,6 milhões de euros no ano passado.

Com estes dados, ainda que parciais, torna-se evidente que a redução de camas públicas que aconteceu ao longo de vários anos não aconteceu por mera desnecessidade dessas camas, mas sim como forma de criar e alimentar um mercado artificial para o privado se instalar. Como é fácil de perceber, o problema é que o mercado do privado na saúde só é possível à custa da degradação e destruição de resposta do público.

Caso paradigmático é o Centro Hospitalar Lisboa Norte, constituído pelo hospital Pulido Valente e pelo hospital Santa Maria. Este centro hospitalar perdeu, nos últimos 10 anos, 230 camas de internamento, vendo-se agora ‘obrigado’ a contratualizar 116 camas privadas. A pergunta óbvia é: por que razão se fecharam aquelas camas se afinal eram necessárias? Por que razão ainda recentemente decidiram, no hospital Pulido Valente, encerrar serviços de medicina e respetivos internamentos se a capacidade de resposta do centro hospitalar já não é suficiente?

Este é um exemplo do que se fez ao Serviço Nacional de Saúde a mando da Lei de Bases do PSD e do CDS. Nos últimos quase 30 anos a ordem tem sido para transferir respostas para os privados, para criar um mercado onde os grupos económicos atuam de forma segura, contando sempre com o orçamento do SNS para pagar a sua ‘livre iniciativa’ e o seu ‘mercado livre’.

Reitera-se o que já aqui se disse: a Lei de Bases da Saúde de 1990 tem de ser revogada, não por mera desatualização, mas porque ela inseriu um viés ideológico que atenta deliberadamente contra o SNS e contra o Estado como prestador de cuidados. O Serviço Nacional de Saúde só poderá reconstruir-se definitivamente quando a lei não o obrigar a destruir a sua capacidade de resposta e a transferir o seu orçamento para quem quer fazer da saúde um negócio.
Bastante esclarecedor!

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Re: Saúde

Post by Sunshower » Thu May 02, 2019 12:14 pm

Não sei se há aqui mais gente tão interessada neste tipo de assuntos como eu, mas achei este estudo super interessante...


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/22/well ... tElse&te=1
Why Does Exercise Guard Against Cancer?

(...)

The scientists asked 10 of the men to start working out strenuously three times a week (...). The researchers drew their blood before, immediately following and an additional two hours after that lone workout.The scientists then carefully added a tiny amount of fluid from the men’s blood to petri dishes containing human colon-cancer tumor cells often used to study cancer growth. At several points during the subsequent 72 hours, the researchers counted the numbers of cells in each dish (...) In the dishes containing fluid taken from the men immediately after a single workout, the scientists counted far fewer cancer cells than in those awash in fluid drawn two hours after exercise. (...) In effect, something about the blood drawn immediately after the workout was slowing the growth of cancer cells.
Ponham-se a mexer, malta. :P
Light travels faster than sound, that's why people appear bright before they start to speak...

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Re: Saúde

Post by Fly_AwAy » Thu May 02, 2019 2:15 pm

tb se pode pensar que a conclusão é que se o efeito passa ao fim de 2 horas de nada serve.

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